Handing over 4 villages is a road to war. Pashinyan legitimizes Aliyev's plan. Ara Papyan

"Detq" interlocutor is political scientist Ara Papyan.

"The demarcation and demarcation process with Azerbaijan has not started yet, but Baku demands immediate return of the territories of four villages located on the border of Tavush region and Ghazakh region, allegedly belonging to it. The rhetoric of Armenian Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan suggests that they are ready for that deal. I would like your comment on this matter."

"The basis of all this is Nikol Pashinyan's wrong concept that, firstly, the state borders of RA are the borders of the administrative unit of Soviet Armenia, and secondly, Azerbaijan is the one who determines those borders. Aliyev insists that these are their territories and demands a concession from Armenia. This, in addition to the violation of international law, is also a violation of the constitutional right, because the Constitution of Armenia clearly stipulates that the change of the borders of the Republic of Armenia can be carried out only through a referendum. On the other hand, what Pashinyan is trying to present today as Azerbaijani territory, there is no legal document regarding it, and if there is no legal document, it means that a new document is being drawn up, and that new document confirms a new reality, which in turn: change of situation. Therefore, this is also unconstitutional, not to mention the military and transport components. It is obvious that by giving up those road sections, new problems will be created for us. That road is also Armenia's only more or less open road to Georgia and through Georgia to the Black Sea. With the surrender of those territories, that road will also be put in danger. Well, it doesn't end there. You concede this, the question of the enclaves will follow, the question of protecting the enclaves will follow, the question of supplying the enclaves will follow the defense, and so on, endless questions. And if Nikol Pashinyan considers this diplomacy for the sake of peace, I will say the opposite: this is a path leading to war, because when do wars happen when the military-political balance is broken? The balance is already broken in favor of Azerbaijan, but now by making our positions even more vulnerable, we tempt Azerbaijan to attack and solve these issues by military means, and Azerbaijan will always find a way to package it by presenting that these territories belong to it, especially in the absence of any opposition from our government."

"In other words, Mr. Papyan, is Nikol Pashinyan's statement that if we don't give these villages, there will be a war, a manipulation?"

"First of all, let me say that according to the Constitution, the prime minister and the government in general are the guarantors of the country's security, that is, they must do everything to maintain security so that there is no war. Now, if you say that there will be a war, the question arises: what were you doing in 6 years or what were you doing after 2020? You would have done something, you would have governed your country in such a way as to avoid war, instead of declaring that if we do not give the territories , there will be a war. And the war is not easy, and the war will create additional serious problems for Aliyev. There is another question here. when Pashinyan was asked if there is a guarantee that if we give Aliyev's requested territories, there will be no war, he honestly said: there is no guarantee, but there is hope that Aliyev will not go to war. In other words, you give those territories in the beginning, you risk your country just for the hope that there might not be a war? This is beyond everyday logic, because even in everyday logic, Pashinyan would never take, let's say, pay some money somewhere without being sure that he will get something in return, that is, he would definitely not make such a deal in exchange for hope. Now what, if you don't give your money in exchange for hope, how do you give a part of your homeland?"

Unfortunately, war is inevitable, peace will be established only by establishing a military-political balance, any other solution will lead to new concessions.

"Nikol Pashinyan publicly said that the 4 villages demanded by Aliyev are not in the RA territory. There is an opinion that with this he legitimizes the new war on the part of Azerbaijan. How about this?"

"Of course, there is such a problem and, unfortunately, this is not the first time that Pashinyan legitimizes the demands of Azerbaijanis. For example, when the Security Council had to discuss the issue of the safety of the people of Artsakh, the civilian population, he stood up and announced that the civilian population was not in danger, and that was when at least several dozen cases of atrocities and murders were already known. Now saying that it is part of Azerbaijan, yes, gives Azerbaijan a legal, political, and even propaganda opportunity to present to the whole world, to say that I am not occupying the territory of any country, this is not aggression, and Pashinyan has said this many times, unfortunately. say: He says, "I don't give an inch from Tavush", that is, implying that what I give is not Tavush, it is not Armenia. In that way, he legitimizes and justifies Azerbaijan's steps. Moreover, he also legitimizes Russia's non-help to Armenia when he declares that Armenia has frozen its membership in the CSTO, as a result of which Armenia is giving Russia an opportunity not to support us by clearly saying, well, you have frozen your membership. But, at the same time, we are a de jure member of that organization, which in turn does not give us the opportunity to expect support from the West. In other words, we are deprived of both Russian and Western support at the same time, and by doing so, we also give Aliyev the opportunity to make territorial claims."

"At the meeting with Nikol Pashinyan, Tavush residents said that they are ready to take up arms and defend their land. But in that case, if Pashinyan admits that those 4 villages are not in Tavush marz, doesn't he also put those people who want to protect their house and land in danger?"

"Unfortunately, that's exactly how it is, and let me say more, something like this is even expected from Nikol Pashinyan, so that he can later resort to repressions against these same people, saying that you used illegal weapons and went against the policy of the government. But, nevertheless, I think that those people have a full right to express their disagreement in all ways, also in the form of self-defense, at least tomorrow, the next day, there will be an opportunity to discuss and raise the issue that it was Pashinyan's autocracy, and the people were against it.

I recently came from Europe, I attended meetings there, and we are of the opinion that we agree with the delimitation and demarcation, but we say, let the parties first apply to the international court, clarify where that border passes, and after that, which is ours. , let us take what belongs to Azerbaijan, let us give it to them, not so vaguely, whoever wants where, or whose sword cuts where, declares his own."